Showing posts with label The Troops are Welfare Whores. Show all posts
Showing posts with label The Troops are Welfare Whores. Show all posts

Friday, May 08, 2015

Mac et al, The Troops are Welfare Whores, Interview Part I



Good Idea Fairy: The focus of this group Facebook TV interview is to get to the bottom of the anti-military aspects of Mac's goals with his websites, and to cover the interest areas of a couple other groups here... Looks like we have one or more interviewees running late.

I'd like to get started with the interview.

I'm the Good Idea Fairy. One of our guests didn't want to come in if this interview were to be done by Hans Fallada over at "This Ain't Hell." So, I'm filling in for him. This interview was moved over to one of the Facebook studios.

Starting with Mac, were going to go around the table and let the guests introduce themselves. So Mac, tell us a little about yourself.

Mac: I'm Mac, I run the following Facebook groups:

The Troops Are Welfare Whores
The Police Are Welfare Whores
The Constitution Sucks
Americans against the United States of America

I also run other similar-nature Facebook pages.

Linda Kay: I'm Linda Kay, main investigator of Kay and Associates. We investigate the paranormal. Here are my associates: Robert Quentin, David Cooper, Rhonda Langston, and our honorary associate, Amber Lamps.

Good Idea Fairy: What kind of paranormal activities do you guys investigate?

Linda Kay: We investigate ghosts, demons, UFOs, extraterrestrial surface anomalies, underwater anomalies, etc.

Good Idea Fairy: Awesome, can't wait to hear what you have to say... on to Psul of the Ballsacks...

Psul of the Ballsacks: I'm here for Ballsacks and Associates. We're a group that goes on the Internet trolling people that harass pretend veterans as phonies. My associates are all basically trolling the Internet right now; however, my counsel Daniel Alan Bernath is with me.

Daniel Alan Bernath: You forgot to say, "Over"!

Good Idea Fairy: Over...

Daniel Alan Bernath: Not you Mrs. Fairy, Mr. Ballsacks! This is like what we do in naval communications.

Psul of the Ballsacks: Over...

Daniel Alan Bernath: My clients are being terrorized by those out to get them. These are bullies, terrorists, thugs, etc. I want to get this Valor Vulture conspiracy out in the open. The other client, Dallas Wittgenfeld, will be here, he's running late... Over...

Good Idea Fairy: Late over what?

Daniel Alan Bernath: You're supposed comment when I say "over"!

Good Idea Fairy: Okay, Mac, let's go back to you. Please tell us what your websites are all about.

Mac: There's this unnatural hero worship going on. I want to fight against that because it's unhealthy. To fight against troop worship, I created "The Troops Are Welfare Whores" Facebook group. I did this to combat people worshiping the troops. I also created an open page called "Police Are Welfare Whores."

Good Idea Fairy: But how can they be that, how could they be welfare whores if they get paid?

Mac: With the government dime... I don't need the military, state organized militias, the police departments, etc. We can protect ourselves. They're doing for us what we can do for ourselves. The government steals from us so that they could run these welfare programs at all government levels.

Narrator: Sound enters the room. It starts off light and gets louder... Whomp clunk... Whomp clunk... whomp clunk... whomp clunk...  It sounded like it was coming down from the hall and getting closer to the room.

Good Idea Fairy: That noise is getting intrusive, can security go out there and see what's going on?

Narrator: Daniel Alan Bernath looks at Mac and starts commenting.

Daniel Alan Bernath: As an Honorary Chief Petty Officer, I say that you're saying that under the banner of the freedom that we provided you...

Narrator: The "whomp clunk" noise stopped.

Mac: Pipe down welfare whore, I served in Desert Storm. I did 10 years in the welfare whore active military and another two years at the welfare whore reserve center that should be destroyed!

Daniel Alan Bernath: Well I'm a Vietnam veteran. You better show some respect before my client, Dallas Wittgenfeld gets here. He has no patience for what he calls "millennial veterans," which is what he would categorize you.

Narrator: Psul of the Ballsacks turns toward Mac.

Psul of the Ballsack: If they have This Ain't Hell posters there, that could be arranged! Do you know when your former reserve center drills next? I'll just accuse them of being phonies!

Narrator: At this moment, security shows up, flanking Adrian Parks. Adrian Park's eyes were wide and his teeth bearing smile was ear to ear. That smile and teeth bearing stare were frozen on his face. Adrian Parks wore a colander on his head. He just stood there with that stare and smile frozen on his face.

Security 1: We found this guy in the hallway, walking into the walls paramecium/gnat stile, slowly making his way over to this room's door.

Good Idea Fairy: There's an empty seat next to Mac, go ahead and help yourself to that seat.

Narrator: The security guards walked Adrian Parks over to his seat. Adrian Parks stops before getting to his seat though. With security still flanking him, Adrian Parks turns to Mac. With ear to ear smile, and wide stare, he asks Mac a question.

Adrian Parks: Do you guys serve beans on Tuesday night at The Troops Are Welfare Whores Cafeteria? Every Tuesday night at the place where authorities wear white lab coats, they serve beans on Tuesday night. I live in that nice place. I LOOOOVE BEEEAAAANS!

Narrator: Security sits Adrian Parks. While he is going through the motion of sitting down, Adrian Parks keeps staring at Mac. At this moment, everybody in the room hears a loud "Thud" on the roof. It's followed by a "THUD, WHAM, THUD," followed by a dragging sound across the roof.

Daniel Alan Bernath: That should be my client, Dallas Wittgenfeld.

Good Idea Fairy: Tell us about yourself Adrian Parks!

Adrian Parks: Bee Dee Bee Dee... I served in the Gulf War as a Marine, then I later ran Adrian Parks Incorporated. When the free market economy didn't cooperate with me, I switched to becoming a key religious leader at voluntarism.

Mac et al, The Troops are Welfare Whores, Interview Part II



Good Idea Fairy: What's with the colander in your head? Are you a Pastafarian?

Narrator: With the wide frozen smile and wide eye stare, Adrian Parks replied...

Adrian Parks: Bee Dee Bee Dee... I'm protecting my brains from PSYOPs!

Narrator: Adrian Park's eyes get wider when he says "PSYOPs!"

He turns to Mac and lifts his hands up. He pushes the palms of his hands toward Mac's face and randomly moves his hands all over the place inches from Mac's face. With wide ear to ear teeth bearing smile, and wide eyes, he kept moving his hands at random locations but remaining within inches of Mac's face.

Adrian Parks: Psy OPS!  PSSSY OOHHHPS!   PSSYYYYY OOHHHHPPPSSSSSSS!

Narrator: Mac adopts the "you're crazy look" on his face as he looks at Adrian Parks. Right then, everybody heard something repeatedly hitting the walls in the hallway... wham clunk... wham clunk... wham clunk... It got louder.

Daniel Alan Bernath's coffee showed ripples in response. The noise just got louder...WHAM CLUNK... WHAM CLUNK... WHAM CLUNK....

The noise got louder and came closer to the door.

Adrian Parks: Bee Dee Bee Dee, that must be the idiot that I sold my useless tinfoil hat to. You see, I was outside looking at the holes in the ground to find out which one of them was my azzhole.

Good Idea Fairy: You should've taken a shower before coming here! You would've found it!

Narrator: WHOMP CLUNK... WHOM CLUNK... WHOMP CLUNK...

Adrian Parks: Bee Dee Bee Dee, it's a shame that the meaning behind your name seems to escape you.

But, onto my story. So there I was, in the parking lot looking for my azzhole among the holes in the ground. This man showed up. Apparently, he had the same problem I had. He was looking for his azzhole among the holes in the ground.

Good Idea Fairy: Then what happened?

Adrian Parks: He approached me and started talking about how he was a retired United States Air Force Lieut. Col. I'm a prior Marine. I know a poser when I see one. I had a spare hat that was not working. It was an old colander that I purchased for $10.00. I wrapped tin foil all over it. I asked him why retired Air Force officers wore tinfoil hats at times.

The guy told me that he was not a poser. He tells me that he was in the Air Force and that he was a Lt. Col. He told me that he was a retired Air Force combat pilot, and that combat pilot veterans wore those things to remind them of their combat pilot time.

So, I sold him my spare colander tinfoil hat for $100.00.

Narrator: At the moment, the big screen in a room captured a video of the hallway. They saw a huge man consistently walking into the walls slowly progressing toward the door. He was wearing a U.S. Air Force pilot hat. In the back, it said, "Hollywood."

Right at the moment, Dennis Howard Chevalier showed at the door. He walked towards the group.

Good Idea Fairy: So Dennis Howard Chevalier, why are you wearing your combat pilot hat and not the one that Adrian Parks sold to you?

Dennis Howard Chevalier: Right when that guy [pointing to Adrian Parks] gave up looking for his azzhole in the ground, he entered the building. I was out there by myself looking for my azzhole from among the holes in the ground.

I was doing pretty good, attention focused on the ground, when all of a sudden a guy in a purple skydive suit bounced off the roof and fell onto me.

He apologized for doing that. He called himself "Thunder Chicken". He wanted to know what he could do to make it up.

Good Idea Fairy: So what did you say?

Dennis Howard Chevalier: He pointed to the tinfoil hat that I had just purchased, and asked me how much? I told him that it would either cost $400.00 or a 7 pound block of government cheese. He quickly gave me $400.00 in cash.

Daniel Alan Bernath: That son of a bitch! That was my retainer fee for appearing for this show! That idiot in the purple suit is Dallas Wittgenfeld, OVER!

Narrator: Dennis Howard Chevalier slumbers over to the empty chair by Adrian Parks. He takes a seat. The material in the seat makes protesting noises as if they were going to buckle in.

Good Idea Fairy: Okay Mac, let's get back to you. Why do you say that the troops are welfare whores?

Mac: In society, you have the wealth generators, and the leeches. The military is part of the leach group. They get paid with the money forcefully taken from the wealth generators.

Narrator: Right at this moment, the noise of Dennis Howard Chevalier's chair started to get stronger. When, all of a sudden, CRRAAACK, WHOOMP BUMP...

Dennis Howard Chevalier's chair breaks and Dennis Howard Chevalier's chair collapsed onto the floor. Dennis Howard Chevalier falls back. His combat pilot hat falls off his head and skitters across the floor. Everybody sees the "Hollywood" label on it rotate into and out of view.

Dennis Howard Chevalier: Someone call the Amber Lamps!

Amber Lamps: You're fine, get up and get a stronger chair.

Narrator: The studio staff help Dennis Howard Chevalier into a stronger chair. They clean up the old chair's residue. At this moment, people hear another noise down the hall... whomp clunk... whomp clunk... whomp clunk... whomp clunk...

From the peanut gallery, someone said, "You're full of crap!" Everybody turned towards the peanut gallery.

A giant peanut walks into the studio.

Peanut Gallery Spokes Nut: Mac is full of scrap.

Narrator: The Giant Peanut takes a seat by the Good Idea Fairy. He continues with his statement.

Mac et al, The Troops are Welfare Whores, Interview Part III



Peanut Gallery Spokes Nut: First, Mac didn't serve 10 active duty years in the military. He didn't serve in the combat theater during the Gulf War. He was a USMC Marine, in the reserve. I wished I could say that he served "honorably", but his service was other than honorable.

He got kicked out with an Other Than Honorable, or OTH, discharge for failing to participate satisfactorily. He failed to attend his regularly scheduled drill weekends.

He received way too many "Unexcused Absence Letters." He ignored those letters, as well as his notice of separation packet. He eventually got kicked out, reduced to E1, and was given on OTH.

Mac has been sore about this ever since.

Now, as to why he runs his sites? No. His poor experiences with the USMC Reserve helped fuel his telling lies to his followers. Those sites that he runs aren't really for the purposes that he sets them up for. Well, at least, not for the reason he lets on.

The real reason for his sites is to get attention. He knows exactly what to say to stir emotions. He knows that the title of his pages will inflame emotions and cause debate. When you have activity under those pages, you increase the chances that traffic flows to where you want it to flow.

In this case, Mac wants traffic to flow to his bit coin links.

Narrator: Adrian Parks gets tired of swiftly moving his hands inches from Mack's face. He stands up and walks around the group while sliding his hands inches from their faces while repeatedly saying, "PSY OHPS". Throughout this time, his teeth baring smile, and wide eyes, remain on his face.

Finally, Adrian Parks gets to the giant peanut. But, before he could get his hands towards the giant peanut's face, Peanut Gallery Spokes Nut quickly gets up and utilizes martial arts moves. From the others' perspectives, the giant peanut's arms and legs looked like they were going through the strobe light effect.

But, to Adrian Parks, it was anything but a strobe light effect. It was a painful, humiliating, and sobering effect. Adrian Parks collapsed onto the floor, his colander fell from his head and bounced across the floor. When Big Peanut got done, he put 1 foot on top of a crumpled Adrian Parks.

Dennis Howard Chevalier: Someone get the Amber Lamps.

Amber Lamps: I got this...

Narrator: Amber Lamps shines a tactical amber light on Adrian Parks, and Adrian Parks comes up. A lot wiser than he was, and without the wide eyes and frozen smile. Adrian Parks slumbers to his chair. He takes a seat.

Big Peanut resumes.

Peanut Gallery Spokes Nut: Well anyway, before I was rudely interrupted, Mac is drawing attention to his links. All those people that post on his pages are stooges.

Narrator: The noise in the hallway gets louder. Whomp clink... whomp clink.... Whomp clink...

They could hear the noise in the hallway just outside the room. Next thing you know, the part of the wall that the noise is concentrated on comes crashing down. Dallas Witgenfeld falls into the room and collapses onto the floor. His colander tinfoil hat skitters across the floor.

Adrian Parks says, "Excuse me." He gets up to get his own colander and puts it back in his head. He walks back to his chair and takes a seat.

Dallas Wittgenfled gets up, brushes his purple sky diving suit down, picks up his colander tinfoil hat and puts it on. He walks over and sits right next to Dennis Howard Chevalier.

Peanut Gallery Spokes Nut: Ahem...

Narrator: Both Peanut Gallery Spokes Nut and the Good Idea Fairy looked at the trio with colanders/brain buckets on their heads... The 3 colander stooges, sitting side-by-side.

Peanut Gallery Spokes Nut was tempted to smack Adrian Parks right upside the head to see if it would create a Newton's cradle affect with the other 2. He reserved that as a disciplinary tool in case one of them misbehaved.

Peanut Gallery Spokes Nut: Well anyway, Mac has successfully suckered a bunch of people into continuously participating on his Facebook groups.

He is living very much like the welfare whores that he accuses other people of being. He has no job. He's living in his relative's basements, eating their food, drinking their water, clogging up their toilets, causing drama, and is basically being a middle-aged kid.

Narrator: At this moment, Mac quickly reaches into his pocket and pulls out his phone. He puts it to his ears.

Mac: Hello? Teal?

Peanut Gallery Spokes Nut: You're a phony aren't you? You never deployed to the Persian Gulf!

Mac: But I did! In Saudi Arabia, I don't know if you boys have all been there, but in Saudi Arabia, it's all classified!

Narrator: Mac gets up and walks toward the door. He holds his phone to his ears and pretends to have a phone conversation with his sock puppet, Teal.

Mac: Yeah... yeah... I'm coming over...

Peanut Gallery Spokes Nut: There's nothing on the guy's phone. As with anything else he does, he's faking it.

Narrator: Mac leaves the room, his pace quickens as soon as he is in the hallway headed toward the exits.

Adrian Parks: Bee Dee Bee Dee... He's taken off to eat all the beans, he will NOT hoard all the beans!

Narrator: With that, Adrian Parks leaves the room and takes off after Mac.

Peanut Gallery Spokes Nut: Whose idea was it to bring everybody into this interview? This whole thing went all over the place and then fell apart.

Good Idea Fairy: Well, I thought it was a good idea. I guess it wasn't. This concludes the first interview. We will take care of the rest of our guests during the follow on interviews. Thank you for tuning in.

Wednesday, January 07, 2015

Paul Montez of Troops are Welfare Whores, my Response to your "Serious" Question to the Military

Paul Montez, The Troops are Welfare Whores poster‎: Serious question for every soldier, sailor, marine, and airman. 

I read your question. You ask us a serious question, you asked us a question based on your lack of understanding of how the real world works. You made an assumption that your ignorance, of what's going on in the world, was "reality."

It isn't.

Paul Montez, The Troops are Welfare Whores poster: If you really believe you protect our freedoms, 

Have you paid attention to what our enemies have said? They have put enough video on the Internet to make it clear that they intend to put the flag of Islam on top of the White House. You have to see this from their, radical Islam's, perspective.

They argue that we should live under their strict interpretation of Islamic law. Our Constitution is a violation under radical Islamic law. To them, Islamic law is a law of God. They see our Constitution as a law created by men, an abomination.

They've declared their intention of destroying the United States. This is key, because if they could successfully defeat the US military in the United States, the rest of the world is theirs for the taking.

They are following what they feel is their manifest destiny. This a manifest destiny that started with the rise of Mohammed. Crack open a history book and read about how fast Islam spread throughout the Christian world.

Prior to Mohammed, the countries surrounding the Mediterranean Sea were predominantly Christian. Over 60% of Christianity was wiped out due to the spread of Islam. It was spread similar to the way ISIS is going about it in Iraq and Syria today.

The radicals in that region anticipate that the entire world will be under the flag of Islam. If they succeed, forget about your constitutional rights. Better yet, forget about your interpretation of what true freedom is.

You'll be living under radical Islamic law. If you refuse to convert to their interpretation of it, you'll get beheaded in front of your family.

Then they'll take the women of your family as sex slaves. Now, let's say you do convert in this scenario. Guess what? You're expected to join the fight against non-Muslims. Once you convert, you could end up being pressed into their militia service... what they call "being a holy warrior".

Once that happens, you'll be doing the very things that you argue against on your Facebook wall. If they determine that you can't go to the frontlines, they could easily position you to where you're in a supportive role... enabling the very things that you argue against.

It's either that, or your life being taken while the women in your family end up becoming sex slaves. Married? Not if you're dead. Your wife or girlfriend could end up being the sex slave of the person that takes your life.

If you don't think that we protect your freedoms, go to Iraq and Syria and talk to those who have been victimized by ISIS. This is an example when a military is unable to protect the rights of the people that they're supposed to defend.

It's a fact, The United States Military protects the freedoms of all Americans in the United States.

Paul Montez, The Troops are Welfare Whores poster: if you really believe you uphold and defend the constitution,

We uphold and defend the Constitution, that's a fact. We swear an oath to defend the Constitution. We guarantee that no foreign power, or US-born enemies, does something that results in people not benefiting from their constitutional rights.

Paul Montez, The Troops are Welfare Whores poster:  then why don't you start shooting at politicians taking away our rights? 

Where, in the United States Constitution, does it authorize the United States military to start shooting at politicians? Simply making this statement proves that you have absolutely no clue about what the Constitution is about, or how it came about.

Because the politicians that you talk about are not taking away our rights. And, if they were taking away our rights, what are you doing about it, other than calling for people to break the law?

You people forget that it's the people in the United States that's responsible for governing the people of the United States. Congress works for the American people. The President of the United States works for the American people. Congress and the president are public servants.

They work for us.

If you, and your fellow tinfoil hat Army, strongly believe that the politicians have been taking our rights away, why aren't you people doing anything about it politically and peacefully?

We have the judicial system in the United States, with the United States Supreme Court sitting at the top. The court's job is to strike down any law that violates the Constitution. If you feel that any law that Congress has created, that the President has signed into law, has taken away our rights, why haven't you taken this to the court's attention?

This is a right that you have as a citizen of the United States.

Second, we don't have the authority to go around shooting people that you think are enemies of the people. In our system of government, everybody has a right to due process of law. Even if you know that somebody has committed an act that requires the death penalty, that someone has a right to due process of law.

There's also a due process involved with removing someone from office. You didn't bother looking into that. You people refuse to exercise your self-governing rights, through your representatives. You people don't have a leg to stand on.

In the United States, when there's no war going on, the only people that should really be taking the time to decide if someone should die, or not, is the court system. This includes judge and jury. If someone is brought up on charges that could include life in prison or the death penalty, it will be the judicial process that makes that decision.

Even if these politicians did try to take our rights away, that act doesn't call for the death penalty. Again, you people have to leverage your numbers when it comes to communicating peacefully and legally with your representatives. You also have to leverage your numbers at the ballot box.

There are legislative and judicial procedures to removing politicians from office. You'll have to reference legislative procedures and the judicial system in this country, and in your area, to get more details.

There's a more peaceful way to do this, and it involves you doing your job as a voter. You failed to do that... so has the majority of the electorate. You people have no legs stand on demanding punishment for the politicians that you people refuse to "supervise."

Every single time a conspiracy whack job tries to argue that our rights are being taken away, they fail to prove their point. They mention a law. But, when I read the text of that law, it's blatantly obvious that these conspiracy whack jobs didn't read the text of this law that they're condemning.

The Patriot Act? Nothing in the text of the Patriot Act suggests that our rights are being taken away. The NDAA? Nothing in the text of the NDAA suggests that were losing our rights. But, if you can find a law that contains text that specifically takes our rights away, you have a responsibility as a citizen to bring that to the court's attention.

If that law was written by the federal government, then you have to bring that to the attention of the federal courts. Likewise, if the law was written by your state government, you need to bring that to the attention of your state courts.

Nothing has been done because the conspiracy whack jobs have consistently failed to prove that our rights are being taken away.

Paul Montez, The Troops are Welfare Whores poster: Why don't you go to the White House and arrest or kill your commander in chief who you claim to despise? 

First, we are a nation of laws. We, the members of the military, make our decisions based on the facts. You people, the tinfoil hat Army, have failed to prove that the President has done anything that would warrant the treatment that you're demanding.

Also, nowhere in the United States Constitution is your call authorized. The President has done nothing to warrant his being shot. He has done nothing to warrant the United States military placing him under arrest.

Yes, many of us will disagree with him in private. But, he has not committed to an action that would warrant the military doing anything to him. Again, if you feel that the President should not be in the White House, if you feel that he should no longer be president, then you need to bring that to the attention of your representative.

There's a constitutional process involved in removing the president. If he meets that, then you need to take that up with your representative.

Second, we don't have the authority to make arrests on US soil. Federal law prohibits our use in general law enforcement outside of a federal military reservation.

Paul Montez, the Troops are Welfare Whores poster: Why don't you storm the NSA headquarters and arrest the people spying on us? 

First, you need to review the Posse Comitatus Act. Federal law prohibits the use of the United States military for general law enforcement. If the people that you talk about, and the NSA headquarters, have broken the law, then the law enforcement in charge of handling their situation needs to place them under arrest.

Second, you failed to prove that their actions require them to be arrested. All you've done was to base your opinion on second hand information. The big question is this, do you have hard-core evidence that he NSA has been spying on you?

If you do, if you could prove that they have been spying on you specifically, is it for something that's justifiable?

The fourth amendment to the Constitution prohibits unreasonable searches and seizures. It does nothing to protect you from a reasonable search... like a crime in progress, with the tools of crime in plain view. If you're breaking the law, for example, coordinating with terrorists intending to commit acts of terror, or helping the terrorist, then listening in to your conversation is a reasonable "search".

If those descriptions fit you, then they should be spying on you. If you're breaking a state law, the state should be spying on you to get evidence to hold you accountable. That's part of investigation. A warrant would be obtained just the same.

The Patriot Act requires a judge's consent, if a search is going to be done before a warrant is going to be issued... because the time needed to stop a crime is shorter than the process to obtain a warrant. Better to get the judge's verbal authorization now, while the warrant issuing process is underway, if waiting for a written warrant would delay the prevention of an act of terrorism from happening.

That's not an erosion of our rights, but a move that brings law enforcement into the 21st century.

The burden of proof is on you. You need to prove that the NSA has specifically been spying on you. If you have that evidence, then you have to prove that you are completely innocent. That is, if you're going to accuse the NSA of committing crimes.

I doubt that you're making this argument because you have "evidence" that the NSA was "spying" on you. There's very good chance that you are arguing this point because of what you heard from others.

Put that Kool-Aid down. Look at the applicable laws that presumably violate your "constitutional rights". If you can't find such loss in our rights, if you cannot quote specific statements from those laws, then you don't have an argument.

Paul Montez, The Troops are Welfare Whores poster: Why don't you arrest IRS agents who target conservatives? 

Again, using the United States military for law enforcement is a violation of federal law. You want those agents arrested for targeting conservatives, which is a violation of federal law, but you want us to break federal law to get one of your wishes carried out.

Where's the logic in that?

Let Congress investigate that organization. If they find fault, the mechanisms are already in place to hold those agents accountable. I guarantee you that this will not require the use of the United States military.

Doing what you demand is outside of our lane, it's not our job.

Paul Montez, The Troops are Welfare Whores poster: Why don't you arrest government officials who sell weapons to drug cartels? 

The same story here as with your last point. Since this is an act of the federal government, by government officials, this falls into the domain of federal law enforcement and Congress. This is outside the United States military's control.

Paul Montez, The Troops are Welfare Whores poster: Why instead do you take orders from corrupt beauracrats who send you to countries who literally pose no threat to us?

This statement proves that you have absolutely no clue about what you're trying to argue. Throughout your "serious question", quotation marks used strongly, you've shown the reader that you know little to no facts about what you're talking about. You show the reader that you know a lot of the garbage the conspiracy whack jobs spew.

Do you have hard-core evidence that the bureaucrats, that give us orders, are corrupt? If you do, there are procedures in place that you, as a regular citizen, to utilize to get that bureaucrat held accountable. Without evidence, with nothing but a tinfoil hat argument, you're assuming that all our bureaucrats are corrupt.

Also, your failure to see the threat that we addressed during the War and Terror shows that you have little to no understanding of asymmetrical warfare. You have little to no knowledge of world history. You have little to no knowledge of current events... outside of what other conspiracy whack jobs have told you.

I guarantee you that the war in Iraq, the war in Afghanistan, our support for the wars going on around the world that focus on fighting the terrorists, are all connected to our security. Go back and read what I said about Mohammed, and the radical Islamic movement today.

You failed to understand that in this war, which is a mortal struggle between radical Islam and the West, led by the United States, there could only be one outcome.

The cold hard reality is that there could only be one outcome to this struggle.

Either we win and change the geopolitical, economic, and cultural outlook in that region, or radical elements of that region will succeed in turning the United States, and the rest of the west, into a series of radical Islamic caliphates.

There is no third option. There is no other option. In the end, one side or the other will get its way. I vote that we prevail. If we don't, they'll prevail. With the radical Islamists in charge, you wouldn't think that the current government arrangement is what you think it is.

If you bothered to do your own research, to include knowing what's BS from what's valid, you'd know that.

You see conspiracy were none exists. You're seriously blind to where it does exist.

Mac, The Troops are Welfare Whores, Lies About our Debate

Mac, The Troops are Welfare Whores: He is on an anti-TTAWW page saying that I banned him because he beat me in a debate. That is false. 

That's a fact. I beat you in debate. You even backed away from an argument you originally supported. You said this to me towards the end of our debate, before you banned me:

"Also, you should try to be more concise. This isn't a very good medium for such long comments." -- Mac, The troops are Welfare Whores

Usually, when people demand that shorten my posts, they're getting mad... or they've already gotten mad. They're seeing that they don't have an argument, and they see the length of my posts as an extensive reason to why they're wrong.

This didn't sit well with you. You pulled many of the cards that the losing side of the debate normally pulls during a debate. This is the pattern that I've seen repeatedly throughout the decade I've been debating people online.

Mac, The Troops are Welfare Whores: I banned him for several reasons:

Your own statement:

"Joe and you are banned for lying." -- Mac, Troops are Welfare Whores

Nope, that doesn't sound like "several reasons." You banned me for disagreeing with you.

You didn't ban me for the reasons that you stated below.

You got emotional. My argument made you realize that you didn't have an argument. You couldn't handle the fact that I was using a reasoned argument to destroy your argument. Deep down inside, you saw that I was wiping the floor with your arse.

Finally, you dropped hints that you wanted me to "drop it" and to either move on, or provide a reply that you could "stomach."

You banned me for emotional and ego reasons.

Mac, The Troops are Welfare Whores: 1. He wouldn't debate.

Wrong. I debated against you, and those that you supported, using a point by point rebuttal. Go back to that statement that I quoted above. If I refused to debate, I wouldn't have generated the responses that lead you to suggest that I cut down my replies.

Mac, The Troops are Welfare Whores: 2. Instead of debating, he tried to prove that I had made a straw man argument. I hadn't, but even if I had, the alleged straw man argument was utterly irrelevant to the discussion I was trying to have with him.

Do you see the contradiction in your own argument here? On one hand, you claim that I "wasn't" debating. In the next breath, you described a debate that we were having.

The reality is that we were debating more than one topic. As the thread progressed, we were arguing even more topics. I addressed you point by point, like what I'm doing here.

I debated you, and you know it. You refused to acknowledge it, because to acknowledge it would also mean that you acknowledge that you got destroyed in debate.

There is no, "tried," about this. I proved, using the strawman formula, that you advanced a strawman argument. Your first post on that thread was a strawman. Your description of what was going on was different from the quote that you linked to.

You failed to argue how that was "not" a strawman argument.

Mac, The troops are Welfare Whores: 3. I was on about day 4 or 5 of a cluster/migraine headache, and I simply wasn't interested in playing games with the Lobsterman.

That migraine wasn't there when you jumped in to support the argument/myth on that thread... a myth that a bunch of civilians "defeated" the U.S. Military. You didn't have that cluster/migraine headache as that thread progressed... you generated your replies to that thread.

If you had that cluster migraine headache, it didn't seem to bother you when you felt that things were going your way. It became an issue only when you ended up getting your arse handed to you on that thread.

Mac, The troops are Welfare Whores: Just throwing this out there, in case he happens to see it.

As you indicated above:

"He is on an anti-TTAWW page saying that I banned him because he beat me in a debate." -- Mac, The Troops are Welfare Whores

In the same post, it was obvious to the reader that Mac was reading what was being posted on that site.

Mac, The Troops are Welfare Whores: What happened was that someone else (a third person in the thread) HAD made a straw man argument, and I pointed it out. Lobsterman decided to play the white knight and basically twisted logic into a pretzel to show that I had made a straw man argument by accusing the other guy of having made one.

This is an example of "deflection," when the losing side deflects their own trait to the winning side. What am I talking about here?

Here's what you actually said in the other thread, in response to me:

"Also, this is a pretty magnificent straw man argument, since I've never suggested getting rid of the military and having no means or system of national/regional defense, but I'm totally used to straw man arguments FROM YOU people." -- Mac, The Troops are Welfare Whores (emphasis added)

You see, you were accusing me of advancing a strawman argument. Never mind that you said this first before I addressed it:

"...Yeah, that didn't work in Vietnam, did it? ... wait..." -- Mac, Troops are Welfare Whores

This was in support of the third person that you claimed "advanced a strawman argument":

"I wouldn't need a mall or regular cop if I was allowed to open carry everywhere. Wouldn't need to troops either. Civilians with More guns than most of the worlds armies? Yeah, try and invade." - Devan Robert Nelson

What was he responding to?

You posted a meme about a guy leading a 3 man "tac" team in the mall. You posted a caption right next to that photo. You talked about how this mall cop told you "civilians" that you guys didn't understand the risks that he went through.

That "third person" that you talked about, that you accuse of advancing a strawman, was responding to your statement. Both you guys touched on the theme of the utility of the mall cop. When the argument evolved into one about the utility of the troops, you jumped in... supporting the argument of the "third person."

Now, you left a link along with your commentary. This lead to another post that you made, quoting a "Mark". When you read that post, it said nothing about you guys being "softheaded". It said nothing about you guys "not understanding the risks" that mall cops went through.

Nope, it said something else.

That post talked about how you guys should explore the causes of war, and how you guys could get your message across without attacking the "humanoids" that were in the military. Nowhere in that quote did he berate you guys about being too "softheaded" and not understanding the risks that he goes through for you guys.

Your statement was a distorted version of the statement that you ultimately linked to. Hence, the first post that you generated was a strawman argument. This is something that you touched upon with your reply above.

Mac, The Troops are Welfare Whores: I wouldn't have banned him for it, except he went on and on and on and on about it. Every time I refreshed the page, he was going on about it some more, so I decided, "Fuck this guy."

Mac, you've been caught in another one of your lies. You're implying that I was spamming the thread. Your own words; however, disagree with you:

"I am not engaging in straw man fallacies, Joe and you are banned for lying." -- Mac, The Troops are Welfare Whores

Proving someone wrong with their own words is like beating a man up with his own prosthetic limbs. :D

You stated, in simple terms, why you were banning me. Nowhere in that statement, nor in any of the statements made in that other thread, did you complain about me "spamming" your thread. Our actual arguments have been posted below.

Even when it comes to what you actually did, you openly lie.

Yes, you probably thought "fuck this guy," because you were getting your butt kicked. 

Mac, The Troops are Welfare Whores, Mistakes Civilians for Military

Mac, "Troops are Welfare Whores": "Of course, when I've told that story in the past, grunts will retort that they must have been POGs, or Air Force, or whatever, but I don't know what they were. 

There is legitimacy to that statement. Combat arms soldiers, which includes infantrymen, are required to go through combatives classes. Once they complete the course and get their basic certifications, they have combatives competitions during their training cycles.

These are informal competitions, were soldiers just have at it and wrestle each other. This usually happens on an impromptu basis provided that a soldier, certified to a higher level than the combatants, is present to supervise.

Now, your statement said that there were about two or three "Soldiers" there. Had the Soldiers been infantrymen, the guy that you talked about would've gotten his arse handed to him in front of his girlfriend. He more than likely would've ended up in the hospital.

They were being too nice about this when they said that these "Soldiers" could have been POGs, or Air Force. Since it's apparent that you didn't serve, there's a very good possibility that if this event actually did happen, those three people could've been very well nonmilitary.

Mac, "Troops are Welfare Whores": There's no reason to assume they weren't Army grunts. 

This is one of your main problems. You're making assumptions based on your bias. Until you've actually served in the military, there's no way for you to figure out whether these people were actually in the Army, in the military, or were simply civilians.

Well, you might say, "These guys claimed that they were in the Army."

Given the presence of stolen valor sites, where veterans expose phony service members, there's a good chance that you can't tell the difference between "phony" and "real". If you had served for 10 years in the military, you'd be able to recall that event and say precisely what those guys were.

If you served for 10 years, like you claimed, and you're making that assumption, there's a good chance that you served those years in the reserves. During that time, you had no real active duty time outside of the training courses that you attended.

That's being nice about it.

You claim that you served. However, your comments here indicate that there's a good chance that you're making false claims about your being a veteran.

Mac, Troops are Welfare Whores: I can go to some of the bars I used to haunt when I was younger, throw a pebble into the crowd, and probably hit some drunk redneck who could beat the shit out of the average Army grunt.

Nowhere in your stories did you indicate that you investigated whether those people were in the military or not. Your litmus test here isn't sufficient to tell you whether you could hit somebody that could beat up a soldier.

However, there is a way to test this. Walk into one of the bars that you used to hunt. Toss a pebble into the crowd. Pull aside the person that the pebble hits. Invite him to go to an army base. Have him challenge one of the soldiers, engaged in combatives, to a fight.

I guarantee you that the vast majority of the people, that you identify as a redneck, would think that you're nuts. They'd probably kick your arse for being stupid enough to throw pebble on them.

If you had any real military experience, you wouldn't have doubts as to who those people were that harassed your friend's girlfriend. It'd be blatantly obvious whether they were military or not given your "military" experience.

You may not have had the military experience back then, but your follow-on military experience would've answered that question.

The fact that you're still guessing at this point, after that supposedly 10 years of service, argues strongly against your claims that you served for 10 years. Again, if you did serve those 10 years, it probably was strictly one weekend a month, two weeks a summer, and whatever course they had to send you two.

No real active duty experience. If you did serve in active duty, your best bet is to not even admit it. You actually make yourself come across as "that guy," the problem child, the incompetent, while "in" the service. 

Sunday, December 28, 2014

Mac, "The Troops are Welfare Whores Administrator", Bans the guy that Destroys him in Debate

I was reading posts on Johnny Bea's Facebook wall. In the process of destroying John Elmo Sheppard Jr.'s arguments, I came across a link to this anti-military Facebook group. This group goes by the name, "The Troops are Welfare Whores."

A misguided, under researched, and anti-military person, going by the nickname "Mac" runs this group. Mac posted a photo. The accompanying caption talked about a mall cop describing civilians as being "softheaded."

A Facebook poster responded. He stated he didn't need the mall cops for his protection. For that matter, he didn't need the troops either. All that was needed was for him to be armed. He extended that by talking about armed civilians.

His reasoning?

Who'd mess with the United States if millions of Americans were armed? What foreign nation would mess with that?

His statement evolved into a debate on that thread. To bolster his argument, those that agreed with him pointed to Vietnam. The assumption they made was that a Vietnamese civilian militia "defeated" the United States military.

I jumped in and countered these specific points. Included in my argument was the fact that the United States military defeated the Vietnamese militarily. The Vietnamese had both, a standing army, and a militia. The United States military defeated both in the battlefield. The U.S. Military defeated the Vietnamese military and the Vietnamese militia throughout the war.

The exchange started off in a civil manner. Mac, "The Troops are Welfare Whores" administrator, looked like he was going to tolerate disagreement.

After we traded a few "blows" on that thread, he backed down and tried to "disown" his stance. He supported the above "just need civilian militia" argument. After I had provided him with the facts of why that argument was wrong, Mac insisted that this topic was a "strawman argument."

I countered his backpedaling by quoting his statements supporting the very thing that he insinuated was a "strawman". In the course of his back peddling, he dropped hints that he wanted the argument to end.

His hopes; however, required me to "move on" and to let him have the final say. That goes against my modus operandi. He didn't realize that if he mentions something in an argument, I counter it.

I kept destroying his argument.

Finally, he asked me to shorten my posts by being more "concise." The losing side uses this tactic when they don't have an argument.

I reminded him that one of two things could happen.

I could present a logical, factual, and reasoned argument. This option generally resulted in longer posts. I mentioned that the other option was to use shorter posts while lacerating him, and his supporters, with flames.

I also called him out for even talking about how "I wouldn't know" how the government would react to an invasion... Mac argued that we would immediately resort to nuclear warfare. I countered that by mentioning my first hand military experiences... we trained to use conventional warfare first.

Normally, battle problems start with a conventional scenario. If NBC, or "CBRN" is part of the problem, it usually happens later in the exercise... not as a first resort. Battle problems started with a conventional scenario before they turned into a nuclear scenario.

This means that we'd resort to conventional means to repel an invasion first. Tactical nuclear missiles come into the picture when the conventional means fail... or if there's no time to resort to conventional means to repel the invasion... and that's the only way to prevent the enemy from accessing critical territory or holdings.

Given the state of the other world's militaries compared to ours, the former is more realistic than the later. This policy on the use of nuclear weapons, by the United States military, is researchable.

Mac, administrator for "The Troops are Welfare Whores," had the audacity to insinuate that I wouldn't know the government's actual nuclear use policy.

I reminded him that I had working knowledge of how the military would do things. I also reminded him that he shouldn't tell me what I know or don't know about a profession I've been in for the majority of my adult life.

I capped the argument by reminding him, using a simple strawman formula, how he utilized a strawman argument.

Mac ran out of argument. He also ran out of steam.

I destroyed his arguments so bad that he angrily, and arrogantly, accused me of "lying." Nowhere in the argument, or in his response, did he prove his assumptions of my "lying," or using "strawmen" arguments, "true." Our exchange is included in the posts that follow this one.

I hammered him so hard that he responded by banning me.

That's an impact indicator telling me that he knows that I destroyed him in debate. I know that his blood was boiling when he moved to block my profile from posting on his page. He couldn't stand up to me in debate.

So, he moved to protect himself, and his fragile ego, by preventing me from continuing to prove him wrong.

These next series of posts will show the argument that Mac, "Troops are Welfare Whores," didn't want the world to see. His own statements, in the following posts, counter what he later told his community.

More on this in my next batch of replies related to Mac, The troops are Welfare Whores.

Mac, The Troops are Welfare Whores, a Veteran? Probably was Incompetent

Mac, The Troops are Welfare Whores, claims that he did 10 years in the U.S. military.

The reality?

Two of his main arguments makes me wonder about his military service. First, he immediately supports an argument about a civilian militia "defeating" a standing army. Second, he insisted that the United States would resort to nuclear warfare first in response to an invasion.

Now, when I showed him about how wrong he was, he back peddled from that argument. He later argued that "nobody would know" what the government would do.

The vast majority of your military personnel, and veterans, with experience in line units, would disagree with both of those arguments. Our training scenarios involve us doing conventional training, and conventional battle scenarios.

When we did train a "nuclear scenario," it generally was an exercise where conventional means to do the problem were done first. This is consistent with the US government's policy for the use of nuclear weapons... a policy that the vast majority of the people that served in the military would know.

Does this mean that he didn't serve?

I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt on this one for the sake of argument. His philosophy, and the way he deals with disagreement suggests that if he did serve, he was a substandard performer... one who pissed people off the moment he opened his mouth.

He claims to have done 10 years. That amount of time is the halfway point to the coveted "20 year mark." Once you get that on the active duty side, or 20 good years on the reserve side, you become eligible to retire.

Whether active or reserve, most service members, at the 10 year mark generally think, "I got this far, I'm halfway through, I'm going for the '20'!" Normally, if they don't do that, or don't come back in to complete that time, there's something non-flattering in the background.

So, why didn't Mac, "The Troops are Welfare Whores," continue on till 20? Well, it's NOT for the reason he'd like to roll out.

Given his lack of knowledge on basic military tactical procedures... as well as his lack of knowledge on basic military strategic procedures... I'm guessing that "Mac" was a substandard performer. That's the most lenient way for me to look at this.

The worst case scenario is that he had an attitude in addition to him being substandard. His commander may have put a bar to re-enlistment on him. Or, he could've been whacked by a quality review board, or a retention review board.

If commentaries, about Mac's weight are true, Mac, "The Troops are Welfare Whores," could've been kicked out for being a fat boy program failure. But, absent his photos, I'm going to assume that this wasn't the case.

Now, I did say that the vast majority of us, in the military community, understand certain things. The vast majority of us like to argue from the facts... something that Mac isn't doing on "The Troops are Welfare Whores" group page.

Researching the facts, and arguing from the facts, is something that we're trained to do. That training carries itself with us beyond the military.

There are a minority of service members who are like Mac. They're usually the substandard performers, the people that are identified as "that guy," "that gal," that "problem child," etc. Mac's demeanor on his page suggests that he had a hard time getting along with others in the military.

These are usually the folks that blame events, things, or others, for their own shortcomings. Consequently, they don't grow as a person or professionally.

Instead of seeing his own flaws, and thus moving forward with his career, he probably blamed "the man," his officers, his NCOICs, his fellow service members, or others, for his failures and his poor standing in his unit.

His commentary does read like he has a "vendetta" against the military for its "perceived" transgressions against him. 

Mac, The Troops are Welfare Whores, and his "Nuking Capitals" Strawmen Arguments...

Mac, The Troops are Welfare Whores: Why would a country want their capitol city nuked, Joe?

First: "...this is a pretty magnificent straw man argument" -- Mac, The Troops are Welfare Whores

What, if anything, does this question have to do with the argument on the utility of a standing military... or, for that matter, an argument on whether civilians could successfully repel an invading Army without a need for a standing Army?

I wasn't arguing from the standpoint that Canada wouldn't want to invade the US for fear of getting its cities nuked. However, advancing that argument raises the usefulness of a standing Army.

I've been in the US military cumulatively for over 1/5th of a Century. I know that we wouldn't need to resort to nukes if the Canadians tried to invade the United States. This mere fact makes your question, with regards to nuking their capital city, a "null and void" point.

We'd defeat them through conventional means. The Canadian military knows that such an act, invading the United States, would be suicide for them.

Realistically, there's no need for either country, under the current conditions, to invade each other. They did draw plans up, during World War II, for invading each other.

They did this from the context of countering an invasion threat from a hostile country. If a foreign power had invaded the U.S., there'd be a plan in place to liberate the U.S. using Canada as a launching point.

This would also be applicable had Canada been invaded. We would've had an invasion plan already in place to liberate Canada, from the U.S.

Mac, the Troops are Welfare Whores: Also, this is a pretty magnificent straw man argument, since I've never suggested getting rid of the military and having no means or system of national/regional defense, but I'm totally used to straw man arguments from you people.

Says the guy that asked questions about why a country wanted its own capital city nuked.

First, from this thread:

"I wouldn't need a mall or regular cop if I was allowed to open carry everywhere. Wouldn't need to troops either. Civilians with More guns than most of the worlds armies?" -- Devan Robert Nelson

In response, a poster says this:

"If you think civilians could take on an invading army your dumb" -- Ian Harmon

Your response:

"Yeah, that didn't work in Vietnam, did it?" -- The Troops are Welfare Whores

This in support of this statement:

"You'll get what the US troops got in Vietnam...... A massacre." -- Devan Robert Nelson

The trend in this part of the argument?

We don't need troops, just millions of armed civilians. Nowhere in there did you correct the other person with regards to the need for a standing military... but you ratified his comment about the alleged effects of "armed civilians" against a professional military.

That was the string, within the thread, that I was addressing, a string that had two points:

1. We don't need a military, just millions of armed civilians...

And...

2. Look at what happened in Vietnam, see point number 1.

I countered both claims with my response. I wasn't advancing a strawman argument. I was sticking to the points that were brought up.

Nowhere in my argument am I arguing against a citizen militia... in fact, I'm a strong supporter of having a lawful citizen militia. They exist per US federal law, as well as per the law of most states. I'm a supporter of their 2nd Amendment rights.

I simply refuse to believe; however, that they alone are needed for this country's defense.

Also, your "not believing" in arguing about the ability of a disorganized civilian militia doesn't constitute my making a "strawman argument" when I do advance my argument.

More on that in one of the following posts. 

Mac, the Troops are Welfare Whores, gets Schooled on What Constitutes a Strawman Argument

Mac, The Troops are Welfare Whores: Joe the entire thing is a straw man argument. 

The basics of a strawman argument:

Person "A" advances statement "X."
Person "B" advances statement "Y," a distorted version of statement "X."
Person "B" concludes that statement "Y," is wrong.
By extension, since "Y," is wrong, then "X" is also wrong.

The original post contains a link to Mark's opinion. You explain that this was a case of a mall cop telling a bunch of civilians that they don't understand the risks that mall cops deal with. This may have happened in another thread or another part of the Internet.

It didn't happen in the quoted statements in your original post.

Mark is "Person A."
You're "Person B."
Mark's statement is "Statement X," and your statement is "Statement Y." The rest follows the above flow for a strawman argument. Based on this formula, and based on your actions, your statement constituted a strawman argument.

Now, the original post resulted in another post. This is a post that hinted that millions of armed civilians are needed... and that the troops wouldn't be needed. That post, the response to that post, and your response to that response, drew me in. I stayed on that specific topic during my reply.

Mac, The Troops are Welfare Whores: I'm not interested in theoretically discussing how well a bunch of totally disorganized civilians would repel an invasion, because it's not relevant to anything I believe.

First, you were interested in arguing that point. I quoted you supporting such an argument. You back peddled from it when I proved that argument wrong.

Second, my arguing something that you don't believe in doesn't constitute a strawman argument. Your reason for something being a "strawman" doesn't fit the above strawman flow.

The topic that I'm arguing against came up courtesy of other posters on this thread. You supported that concept, indirectly, when you brought up the points about the Vietnam War. My argument was against you, and those that shared your opinion.

Your arguments helped shore up the argument advanced by another poster. This poster argued that we didn't need the troops. He insinuated that millions of armed civilians, in the wealthiest country in the world, "could handle" the job just fine.

How these civilians do against a trained enemy military, or organized armed group, is evident throughout history, and even during current events.

For example, there are more armed Iraqis than the stated number of people in ISIL. I know this, as I've combat deployed to Iraq as an infantryman.

That fact, about an armed population, hasn't been effective with most Iraqi civilian effort to repel ISIS. In fact, their tribal militia are arguing that the U.S. Military should do more to intervene to repel ISIS.

There are reports that elements of Iran's standing army is providing help to Iraqi militias.

The same is also true in Afghanistan. There are more armed Afghanis than there are members of the Taliban. What would count as "civilian militia populations" in these countries haven't been effective in repelling the radical Islamic threat.

Having a standing Army on your side makes a world of difference.

Mac, The Troops Are Welfare Whores: The point of mentioning the nukes is that any country that invaded the US would be nuked immediately. You must surely know that.

Here's what I do know.

Department of Defense Policy, and US Government Policy, prohibits "first use" of nuclear weapons. There are exceptions, but these exceptions aren't the norm. The primary effort is conventional force used first.

Meaning, if a conventional military response is enough to repel the threat, no nuclear weapons will be launched.

Even the Chinese and Russians don't have the logistics and power projection capabilities to launch an invasion of any US State. Meaning, the United States, right now, would be able to repel a foreign invasion from these two countries. They'd be able to do it conventionally.

Now, if they immediately use nuclear weapons against us prior to their conventional strike, then we'd immediately use nuclear weapons in response.

Don't make assumptions about what I do or don't know simply because you don't want to admit that you're wrong. 

Mac,Troops are Welfare Whores, Utilized Strawman Arguments

Mac, The Troops are Welfare Whores: I know what a straw man argument is. I have written extensively on the topic of logical fallacies.

Then you should know that you're engaging in straw man fallacies on this thread. Whether you've written about that fallacy or not is beside the point. In practice, you don't appear to know what constitutes a strawman fallacy.

You don't seem to know that you're actually engaging in it while erroneously accusing others of engaging in strawman tactics.

Trying to claim that "this is a strawman" because it's not something that you subscribe to isn't you accurately identifying what a strawman is.

The points that I brought up on this thread directly addresses the points that I was countering... I wasn't countering something similar or that sounded the same... I countered what was actually being said while remaining on the topic that they started... that doesn't constitute my advancing a strawman argument.

Mac, the Troops are Welfare Whores: And I seriously doubt if there would be a conventional military response to an invasion. We'll have to disagree about that, because neither of us know.

Again, I've been in the military for over 1/5th of a century, cumulatively. I've practiced this craft, to include training to maintain my professional specialties as part of a larger training effort. I've done this long enough to know for a fact that we won't always immediately resort to a nuclear strike.

The last time I've trained in a scenario that involved nuclear weapons was back in the 1990s. The last battle problem that I did, involving nuclear weapons use training scenario, was almost 2 decades ago.

Every time we did these training scenarios, these battle problems began with a conventional scenario... and it evolved into "mass conflagration." This was also known as the losing side, the Soviets or rogue third world dictator, using tactical nuclear weapons.

You see, that's the key... by the losing side.

If we successfully repel an invasion using conventional forces, there'd be no need to resort to nuclear war... unless the losing side resorts to it in order to regain momentum in an attempt to complete their invasion.

As part of my profession, I have to know the doctrines that impact what the military does. Those doctrines, specifically talking about nuclear weapons, don't identify those weapons as being "first resort" weapons.

Don't tell me what I do know, or don't know, about a profession that I've practiced most my adult and professional life. Thank me for giving you a clue about how the real military would do things against your lack of knowledge about what you're talking about here.

Don't make assumptions about what I do or don't know about this topic. Have the honor and integrity to know that I know more about this topic than you... I have experience against your lack of it. You should be thanking me for educating you in the face of your not knowing what you're talking about.

It's painfully obvious that you need to do a lot of research in the areas that we debated. Your argument in this topic isn't able to withstand a fact check.

What I'm telling you are facts based on firsthand experience. I'm also giving you a perspective that's based on my familiarity with our doctrine and law involving the use of nuclear weapons.

If what you said were true, we would've turned Afghanistan into a glowing mushroom garden. We didn't. We used a conventional and special forces response instead. We also used economic, political, and other types of responses.

Mac, The Troops are Welfare Whores: Also, you should try to be more concise. This isn't a very good medium for such long comments.

The fact that I post in the length that I post contributes to my being able to do this:

"Although, I must thank you for your calm and articulate comments. We aren't used to that around here." -- Mac, Troops are Welfare Whores

I could do one of two things, I could lacerate you guys via a flame war, which doesn't take a long post to engage in... or I could advance a factual, reasoned, and logical argument. The latter requires a lengthy response at times.

You should be thankful for my long posts. 

Mac, "The Troops are Welfare Whores," Lies in a Debate he's Losing, he bans the Victor to Protect his Ego

Mac, "The The Troops are Welfare Whores": I am not engaging in straw man fallacies, 

Actually, you are engaging in straw man fallacies. You provided a link, in your first post, to a statement from Mark. You quoted Mark's asking that you guys address the causes of warfare. He provided you with examples of approaches that you could take. He tried to discourage you guys from attacking members of the military.

Your summary of the account?

That a "mall cop" was trying to tell you "civilians" that you guys were being "softheaded," or something to that effect.

The implication there is that the post that you linked to captured him criticizing you guys for not knowing the risks that he went through. When the readers read that post that you linked to, where you include his statements, that's not the impression that they get.

You advanced a strawman argument.

Mac, "The The Troops are Welfare Whores": Joe and you are banned for lying.

If you read the posts that I made, I proved my case that you advanced a strawman argument. I wouldn't have done that had I "lied."

There's only one liar between the two of us, and it isn't me.

You assumed that you weren't advancing a strawman argument, when in fact that's what you were doing. You assumed that I was advancing a strawman argument, when in fact I was countering the points made.

I wasn't countering points not related to what I was responding to... in an attempt to tie them to the actual argument. I countered the actual argument.

You failed to prove your point. You reacted by banning me instead of being man enough to "take what's coming".

Mac, The Troops are Welfare Whores: I fucking thanked you for being calm and articulate on this page and you come up with some bullshit like that?

First:

"It's for that reason us admins are careful of what language we use. You'll almost never see us curse, use the r-word for a slow person, etc. There's multiple pages devoted to monitoring and reporting us. I wish I was joking." -- "The troops are welfare whores"

Yup, alias Stephen "Mac" Duffy, you made a liar out of your admins, didn't you? :D

Second, I was consistently calm and articulate throughout that thread. That tone didn't change. What did change was your perception of my posts.

Your perception changed as the thread progressed, because you were getting more and more emotional. You were getting more emotional, because my arguments forced you to question your own stance. Your ego refused to acknowledge that fact.

Your blood kept on boiling when I forced you to see the fallacy of your stance.

You couldn't be man enough to even stand by your implied argument. You dismissed that as something that "you didn't originally believe." The more your blood boiled, the more my posts came across to you as something other than what they actually were.

What you consider as "bullshit" is me forcing you into a position to where you're questioning your own stance.

If you're going to sling factually challenged comments, be man enough to take the blistering fact check scrutiny. You could always avoid that by doing your research, by studying, and by arguing from the facts instead of from your emotions and feelings.